@Marty - I like your approach but have concerns about some of the details. I don’t think I’ve seen any convincing evidence that any WOA device delivers 40% battery battery life over a comparable i5 based x86 device. The WOA “bleeding edge coolness” went out the Window (pun intended) with losing the svelte Surface Pro X design language. I’d also knock it more for the lack of TB4 support in ARM…
But I would consider a Surface GO 4 size/weight device if it included 16gb ram, 512gb ssd, 5g and slim pen compatible keyboard with recharge tray - not a tall order at all…
1.egpu support. I agree that it needs to come to WOA, though I expect that will be exceptionally difficult given the unified memory architecture of ARM. I’ve heard that Apple has been trying but is so far unsuccessful.
OTOH I can’t see that being a must have or even mid priority demand for the likely buyers of this system who want the Pro form factor, and the 5G and pen support. I think it would be considerably more in demand for a conventional clamshell.
Other docking solutions- By no means a comprehensive test, but so far, the the Pro 5g has worked properly with every USB based dock we’ve tried, including proper tunneling of video via DisplayPort or HDMI protocols.
TB support, again I think the likely buyer of this system has TB support way down the list, if at all. And for that matter Apple users are far more likely to have actual TB peripherals than PC users based on what we’ve heard from vendors such as OWC
And I didn’t list this, but software compatibility really is a non-issue for 95% of users now with Windows 11 64bit/32b emulation. We haven’t come across any compatibility issues with current versions of any apps from the major publishers.
The one thankfully quite niche exception are apps that require a hardware license key such as some versions of AutoCAD. But again, who’s likely to try and run AutoCAD on a Pro 9 5g? It was painful enough on my SurfaceBook 2
The other area is some older hardware. One example I can think of is the software to manage an older iPod. The plug in for iTunes doesn’t exist for WOA and apparently for some reason emulation isn’t an option either, it likely commits the “sin” of talking directly to the hardware.
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Hifihedgehog
(Hifihedgehog - Waiting for Surface Pro 10!)
244
For me at least, battery life is a huge factor. Also, thanks to the advances, the compatibility issues have largely evaporated as well.
Actualy, we have it, @dstrauss. The Pro X always had a significantly smaller battery than the Pro 7 and 8 yet it lasted at least as long as the other Pros. So if they put this more SQ3 efficient processor in the same chassis as the x86 models only now with the same larger battery as the x86 Pro models, you can only naturally expect significantly longer battery life.
Hifihedgehog
(Hifihedgehog - Waiting for Surface Pro 10!)
246
We have yet to see the differences between SQ2 and SQ3 as far as power characteristics and @Desertlap I believe mentioned is under NDA for now as far as disclosing exact test results. If power draw remains the same generation-over-generation, though, I would conservatively estimate a floor or worst case of at least 20% better battery life. So if you were a heavy user and got 4-6 hours on your Surface Pro 8, expect 5-7.5 hours. Plus a test that many of the sites do not do is idle usage, like leaving your display on and not interacting intensely or frequently (such as eBook or PDF reading, when you only flip pages every 30 seconds to 1 minute). In those idle scenarios, ARM whips the pants off of x86.
Then again, in those scenarios, e.g.reading on long flight with the cabin lights dimmed, a device like the SLS also gets over 10h (with a 57Wh battery) in my experience. WOA might do better, but for my mobile use x86 seems to be sufficient.
If they release a new pen that isn’t carpenter pencil shaped but performs like the slim pen 2 and pair it with a Go 4, that would be the most tempting thing for me to move back away from Apple. Windows file management is just so much better.
agreed about the price point of 900$ and lower costs for accessories (though I think I would go a 3rd party type cover and recycle my Surface Pen through a pen clip). Concerning the pros/cons, for me it would be:
.+ + battery life
.+? if igpu is better
.+? less heat if more efficient (/slower degradation)
.- - price (but if there is a price cut than this point is moot)
.- - incompatibility
Not specifcally AutoCAD, but for small projects I would (rarely) try/use CAD software. Also Blender sometimes (that might be a performance issue, though the final rendering I would do on an other faster pc).
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Hifihedgehog
(Hifihedgehog - Waiting for Surface Pro 10!)
252
You might consider the Renaisser Raphael styluses. Those compare favorably with the Surface Pen, are rechargeable (albeit via mini USB), use the classic barrel shape, and are less than half the price.
Hifihedgehog
(Hifihedgehog - Waiting for Surface Pro 10!)
254
Bad news on 13th Gen. So now with the independent reviews out in the open, all the promises Intel was feeding everyone about improved efficiency with 13th Gen Raptor Lake were total bullcrap. (Good thing I have an SQ3 model Surface Pro 9 ordered.) I imagine when the Pro 10 comes out, more people will be passing on the Intel models because Intel is totally out of control at this point with power levels. Fact: You will need either a 480mm cooler or a chiller to tame these power levels on a surface area as tightly concentrated as a CPU die:
As for pricing on a WOA device I would expect it to be 75 % of a comparable x86/x64 device and as compatibility issues gets ironed out a gradual price increase so they reach 95 % when 100 % compatible would be an acceptable approach for me. Added benefits like longer battery life, instant on, 5G and so on would more than compensate for the lack of a price difference. But I also expect som makers to come out with dirt cheap, but somewhat stymied, devices.
I will keep beating that dead horse, I don’t see why the SGo shouldn’t be the the experimental device for WOA. That size marks the sweet spot for a portable windows device, yet MS and it’s OEMs are releasing 13" devices and even clamshell ones first for WOA.
If they were serious on taking on IOS and Android, we would have a Go-sized Pro X. My SP8 is heavy enough for all the things it can do, why would I need a heavier device that can do less and is unproven?
Would battery life and overheating not be an issue here? The new MS SQ3 (8xx) would require more space for cooling and a large battery for a tablet. A regular SD 8cx could be doable otoh, it would lack behind on performance for the premium price (battery life would be amazing though).
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Hifihedgehog
(Hifihedgehog - Waiting for Surface Pro 10!)
260
No one has specified if the SQ3 draws more or less power or puts out more heat than SQ2. If anything, I would suspect it draws less given that it is on a newer 5nm process. This makes sense since the SQ3’s official battery life rating is much higher than Surface Pro X: 19 hours versus 15. This is with a 47.7 Whr battery compared to the 39 Whr battery. That’s 27% longer battery life from a 22% larger battery, so we are seeing some efficiency improvements, perhaps a lot more than meets the eye here since the processor would have to be significantly more efficient to negate the increased power draw of the 120 Hz display. So givens its higher efficiency, I would say the SQ3 would be better suited than SQ2 for a Surface Go Plus.
