Ha ha. Looks like Im retiring on a Go2. There is nothing for me in this Surface “event”.
Funny though, I am actively eyeing the Duo. If they can smooth out Windows on it, Im there. I can hopefully make the Go a desktop.
2 Likes
Too bad it didn’t catch fire in the creative space. As a drawing canvas, I really enjoy it. When I have the coding bug, it’s great screen real estate (same for simultaneous multiple document review). The ability to pair Duo Deux and have several Android apps running in the mix is amazingly productive.
My conundrum is I’d hate to lose the form factor to obsolescence if they drop Studio like Surface Book. Do I capture the 11th gen chip upgrade to gain a few more years, or hope someone produces a comparably sized touch/pen monitor? 
1 Like
Just a feeling from talking with our MS folks, but it reminds me a bit with what MS did with the Pro 7 + prior to the Pro 8. In other words I think there is a larger redesign in the works, and it might have been part of this announcement but for the significant thermal differences between 11th gen and 12th gen, something that 13th gen looks to address reasonably well.
And they don’t want to get caught in the NEO trap again by preannouncing it, where the reality of the chip was far different than what we got.
4 Likes
I appreciate the hope @Desertlap.
Maybe Intel should change its name to F.U.D. with the tagline “We suck battery and blow heat!”
5 Likes
I have to wonder if Intel paid extra for exclusivity to the Surface line, owing to their Wintel roots.
2 Likes
And then accepted Qualcomm?
2 Likes
I don’t really know @desertlap…
Yes - I have learned I’m not a power user.
Dismissiveness - The SQ1 and SQ2 did not deliver significant battery life improvements and all the talk is “an extra hour or so” about the SQ3; 5g is nice; but I just don’t see the advantage of relying on MS for the only ARM native software solutions, because if this their future path is WOA at least their own software should have been available and run as well as the x86 versions coming out of the gate.
Size/Price - now that there is no size improvement, and cost is actually a bit higher than the x86 version, I don’t see either of those as advantages for ARM either.
Maybe a GO size device (with at least 11" screen) will change my mind, but for now, I just see no real advantage (other than 5g) to the WOA solution from MS.
One more thing I learned from the walled garden that I’m not sure I’ve shared before - even small feature differences/design in the various Office versions can drive me nuts. A simple example if printing envelopes - the Mac version completely botches quick envelope printing compared to x86. I expect that from mobile vs desktop versions, but not to this extent between desktop versions.
3 Likes
Well our MS rep just dropped off samples of the Pro 9, Pro 9 5G and Surface laptop. They have asked not to formally test them yet especially the Pro 5G as apparently there will be software updates prior to official release.
I will say the green Pro 9 looks ever nicer in person than the pictures online. I just wish they had extended the color options to the Pro 9 5g as well as i intend to switch to it from my Pro 8
4 Likes
One other small observation. Though not to the degree that the Pro X did, likely due to the weight gain, but the Pro 9 5G still feels a bit more balanced in hand subjectively, than the Intel Pro 9
3 Likes
And I can’t tell if it’s just a new versus used, but the displays on both look to be a bit brighter than the Pro 8
4 Likes
Office, Word Perfect and Adobe keep me tethered to Windows. Office for Android is a second class implimentation of the industry standard.
4 Likes
My biggest concern, no one can be sure that all compatibility issues was solved, because softwares works in a strange way. Many places still using old software from the windows 7 era and try update them when new OS come out. Or some obscure programs that’s very necessary for me but the developer stated that it wasn’t build with WOA in mind and wasn’t recommending it. Or many current AI software wasn’t built with WOA in mind, they’re built based on x86 hardware and iGPU, because that was what the devs of those projects use.
With those reasons, dropping a big amount of money on a WOA device that I wasn’t even sure would work well with what I need it for doesn’t seem all that future proof.
And even if it does the emulation well, would the battery life be better than its intel equivalent? Because I’m pretty sure the predicted battery life wasn’t done with emulation in mind.
I guess users like me is the reason WOA never take off. I understand that a platform need more users to be able to develop, but when there’s already something that works and does it well, it’s hard to pick up something that currently can do less and cost more.
4 Likes
I shouldn’t have neglected Adobe - Acrobat Pro is much harder to do certain tasks in Mac vs Windows (which could just be a muscle memory problem and not so much design insufficiency).
2 Likes
‘Second class’ is an understatement. At best it’s okay for being a few touchups to a document.
But then again, it’s competition on Android is Google Slides so…
1 Like
And you can be sure those will be terrible in performance. Samsung should slap a WOA on any of those their premium tablets, even if it’s the one from last year…
3 Likes
+1
1 Like
It may be a pining for hopium talking, but do you think they will revisit SPX form factor?
I recall back during SPX release, you commented that MS envisioned the SPX to replace the Surface Pro line outright. Now three years later, the reverse has happened, and there’s been a regression in form factor.
I can’t imagine that all the R&D that went into designing the SPX came cheap. And what is point of all those efficiency cores in Intel’s new architecture if not to enable designs like the SPX?
So why drop the SPX line completely? I just don’t see where MS is headed with the 2-in-1 segment they created.
2 Likes
Neither do they.
5 Likes
Eh, they can pump out prototype shapes all day. They’ve got the best 3D printers money can buy for that.
And there’s only so much you can do physically and thermally in a given space.
So this is at best somewhat informed speculation and not based on any testing of either of the Pro 9 systems (per MS request until they release the final software which apparently will be a day one update for both devices).
So first off, form factor. Based on the testing we have done of a developer board of the 8Cx gen 3, it is a significantly hotter running chip at full performance levels. Much more so than the even the 8cx gen 1.
We have heard informally that there are three reasons for the Pro 9 5G being heavier than the Pro X.
-
Additional antennas for 5G (which one MS engineer also told me will be impressive). I don’t have a feel yet for antennas in the Pro 9 5g, but based on a few cell phones we’ve seen that went from LTE to 5g without other significant changes, that adds a at minimum a few grams to the weight.
-
The Pro 9 5g has the same size battery as the Intel Pro 9 and also for that matter the Pro 8 before which was bigger than that in the Pro X.
-
Last but not least, I suspect that the cooling configuration in the Pro 9 5G is significantly more robust, not only to accommodate the hotter running chip, but also for the 5G radio AND likely to reduce thermal throttling, which is definitely a thing with Pro X especially when running X86 emulation.
Additional weight gain also comes from the Pixel Sense display which is both thicker and heavier than that used in the Pro X.
That is a reasonable tradeoff IMHO as the panel in the 9 (and pro 8) is significantly improved over the one in the Pro X , not just because of the higher refresh rate and support for the Slim Pen 2, but also because of the improved color gamut and peak brightness, which is why it now can support HDR content which the Pro X could only do with external displays.
So @Marty I don’t think it was abandonment of what they set out to do with the Pro X , but accommodations for features and changing chip requirements.
And to that point, Qualcomm also has new 800 and 700 series WOA chips in the pipeline. The 700 especially is likely to appear in several other OEM systems as well as a Surface Go update. Rumors were earlier in the year of a WOA Surface with a ~10-11 inch display.
That obviously didn’t’ appear, but RUMOR is that is due to the chipset not being ready yet.
So TLDR: We intend to test the heck out of the Pro 9 5G and I personally will be switching from my work provided Pro 8.
Finally, I am honoring MS request not to formally test, yet, but anecdotally the Pro 9 is noticeably faster in every aspect, including boot as well as running Android apps for instance.
I’ll have much more to say after we run one through our normal certifications.
5 Likes