iPadOS 16.1

Apple iPads
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Well, there’s Runtime Revolution, which became Livecode (look up the Wikipedia article to see the compleat list of corporate renamings):

but I don’t think Apple lets them put it on an iPad.

I’ve been using Nodezator (for Python), but not sure if it would run in Pythonista or no.

Lots of other projects in this space — Ryven seems nice:

but again, no iPad version

I’d really like to see a nice tool for making a graphical interface which didn’t have so much baggage.

Of course, the big reason we’re in this position is Bill Gates:

https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt

Arguably the best option is AppleScript Studio (or whatever they’re calling writing AppleScript in XCode these days), but again, no XCode for iPad.

FWIW, folks have been wanting this for over a decade:

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142

This is more than a bit hyperbolic, but also makes some valid points, including that Apple might be misreading some needs/wants.

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He is right as to external monitor operations - it is clunky for no reason - let user arrange windows as they see fit externally and keep your handcuffs for internal screens only - I don’t care this is a touch first device (thus all the wasted white space on a tablet) but turn the screen over to me when external.

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Well, with the iOS/iPadOS 16 betas nearly final, no more new features (probably), just tweaks and bug fixes, this is what it has meant for me:

The Good

  • Merge Duplicates in the Photos app
  • AirPlay finally works for my Mac mini

The Bad

  • iPhone hotspot has been degrading in functionality all the way through beta till now it’s almost too frustrating to use, cutting off and on at random intervals.

What I Wanted But Didn’t Get

  • SideCar was not improved at all that I can tell. :crying_cat_face:

Final Judgement: meh

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iPadOS 16 beta 3-

I give them a lot of props for the old college try, but in typical Apple fashion they are so focused on keeping the “iPaddy-ness” of the iPad that they have missed the mark on Stage Manager. They insist on the Outer Limits treatment of “we control the size (horizontal) and placement (vertical)” and the “clarity (screen quality)” for all things on the external monitor.

STOP!

Craig et al - save that for internal screen only - just follow Mac conventions on external - easy peasy.

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146

There’s one more thing about Viticci’s criticism of iPadOS 16 that I wanted to address:

"Viticci shared on Twitter two feedback reports he filed back to Apple about Stage Manager, still in testing. First, he suggests an easy way to move windows from the ‌iPad‌ to an external display, as it’s currently not possible to do so. The other feedback report outlines how the system “destroys” workspaces for apps when connected to an external display.

For the latter report, Apple responded by saying it "behaves as intended,” which Viticci calls “baffling.” For the other suggestion to make it easier to move windows and spaces to an external display, Apple said after having “carefully considered” the idea, it won’t be moving forward with its implementation.” (emphasis added)

This is such typically arrogant Apple - it’s basically an “FU” to his criticism with a “get in line you idiot - we intended it to behave this way so just get used to using it OUR WAY.” And worst of all, Viticci is CORRECT - iPadOS 16 does heavy-handidly destroy your desired work spaces in favor of its placement/sizing decisions on that big beautiful external monitor.

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147

Well, this is a bit of a shocker - there won’t be an iPadOS 16.0 - going straight to 16.1

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148

Somehow I missed this last month as well - and of course I agree with Gurman - Stage Manager needs to be more Mac-like:

Apple’s New iPad Multitasking System Doesn’t Cut It

I do think it is a workable solution for the internal display, it just needs to go to Mac style windowing on the external display…

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To add a bit on to this, apple told our IOS developer that stage manger is being rethought and reengineered as part of 16.1 specifically as to how it deals with displays, as the lack of user options has been by far the biggest complaint.

Of course this being Apple, we’ll see if it turns in to tangible changes.

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OK - after all my bashing a little good news - 16.1 Beta 1 has improved Stage Manager and the Dock on the internal display. If you turn each of them off (long press the Stage Manager but in Control Center and disable them) you can swipe in from left (for Stage Manager) or up from bottom (for dock) and they appear and will disappear easily, leaving the whole screen for applications. You can pretty easily make two windows side by side without having to turn off Stage Manager, and even introduce a third app (like answer a Message) and when you minimize the third app the original two go back to their previous positions. this is a VERY GOOD compromise on the internal display (especially us tiny 11 owners) BUT overall window management still sucks on an external display because windows WILL NOT stay where you put them and in the size(s) you choose.

COME ON CRAIG - just take the handcuffs off when connected to an external display…

PS TO PANOS PANAY - bring more parity between the iOS and MacOS versions of Office - pretty please.

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A useful left edge swipe action, sounds great. Meanwhile windows users get a frickin widgets panel. Grumble grumble.

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152

At least this little concession in 16.1 gives me hope Apple is listening to all the complaints.

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153

Yay, with public beta 5 the iPhone personal hotspot seems back to working as it should.

Also, not sure if the kudos should go to AT&T or Apple, but last week on a whim I decided to try to enroll my Apple Watch on cellular… And it went through without any issues! Previously it required a visit to an AT&T store to have an expert spend a while getting it to work, according to everything I’ve read. Previous attempts on my own in the last two years with both the Apple Watch and Samsung watch were utter failures, never getting as far as the system recognizing the watches were trying to enroll. Maybe I got lucky.

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154

I get the feeling that Apple themselves, based on their device sales strategy, is fighting all they can and then some to not make an iPad that is too Mac-like and therefore capable of inflicting mortal wounds to their Mac sales because if it is too Mac-like, it is Mac-replaceable and therefore enters their most (not) wanted list of a Mac Killer and a Mac Slayer. They only mouth the words when they market the iPad Pro as a “Super. Computer.”, but they do not sing the song. They are purposely reluctant in going too far knowing that if they do, why would someone buy a Mac if the iPad can do the job of both with the same results, transforming from companion device to cannibal device? Sales cannibalization is the greatest fear of every bean counter and CFO on the planet, but it is true also that confusing it with product innovation is their most common tactical error. To these visionless corporate roadblockers who avoid progress like the plague while clinging to their balance sheet security blanket, it is fiscally fatal when they are slow to the punch and a competitor beats them at their own game.

I mean, I am seeing something similar in the game controller market: hall sensors in game controllers’ joysticks. For decades, it has been known by gaming enthusiasts that if hall sensors took off, game controllers would avoid the inevitable damage of joystick sag that average everyday potentiometer-based joysticks will someday develop from repeated daily abuse. Now that the right-to-repair movement has nudged manufacturers into embracing modularity and user serviceability, after-market hall sensor-based joysticks are no longer $100+ unicorns, but mainstream items can be bought for a nominal price as replacement parts for the game controllers that are more user serviceable. Seeing this key advantage and strong sales pitch, after-market controller makers are switching to hall sensor-based joysticks so their controllers are already armed and equipped out of the box. Both are stealing sales from the first-party controller makers who bank on a steady cash flow that gushes into their pockets every time junior spams the joysticks and trashes a highly profitable $60 controller that costs $10 or less to make.

Point taken and made, Apple has fought against their feral instinct, opened the bottle and finally let the desktop genie out by adding a desktop to their iPad. That choice took some iconic “Tim Apple” “courage” but if half-hearted or tentative in the gory details, instead of drawing the sword, they will fall smack dab on top of it with… gory results. Consumers know what a good desktop looks like and they also know what a bad one looks like as Microsoft can readily attest from their failed Windows 8 experiment. On the other hand, it is clear as a bell rung on a church steeple that Apple is not so dumb or dense like willfully (and arrogantly) ignorant Microsoft about making a good desktop UI. macOS is living proof of their desktop UI chops that any dyed-in-the-wool Apple fan will readily submit as exhibit A to that court of public opinion. Either they go in and do it right because they know they can, or they get hissed and booed off their stage and kicked and knocked off their pedestal when the solution manual is staring right straight at them face to face… only several feet away, I am afraid, from the Mac that is positioned next to the iPad on the photo set that they brandish for their brand.

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155

Interesting analysis. I think there a couple of variables though.

One is that I don’t think Apple is worried about cannibalizing sales of the mac with the iPad. Macs are on a roll right now and have been since the release of the M1. In fact that last earnings call had the Mac as having the best quarter ever.

Two is that, at least with those we work with, Apple genuinely sees the iPad as serving different needs and markets. Yes, there is substantial overlap, which Apple acknowledges in multiple ways, most importantly by continuing to improve how well they work with each other.

I think a lot of people are conflating equivalency in core architecture with equivalence in application.

Because I’m old enough to have been around since the very earliest days of the personal computer. I’m seeing a lot of similarities with what happened when Intel got serious about making server and workstation-oriented chips as well as their main lines, with the XEON specifically coming to mind.

Intel specifically introduced it as a chip for genuine server and specialized engineering workstation and types of uses, but Compaq most notably introduced some “mainstream” desktops, but people quickly found out that running mainstream Windows the performance in most cases was at best roughly equal and in many cases less than the 486 and later Pentiums, despite the Xeons is certain benchmarks beating out the mainstream line of processors by substantial amounts.

I think Apple is pursuing a similar strategy which optimizing each product line, for its core users in each category. And to wit to that, rumors are saying that while the iPad will get the M2 fairly soon, it will in fact be an iPad tweaked version of it, such an M2P or M2P.

I think,TLDR, Apple for at least the medium future will continue to develop both product lines for the prime users for both platforms while improving interoperability for those users where they cross over or use both platforms.

In other words, those waiting for a MacPad or for that matter even a touch mac, are in for a very long wait.

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One more observation. There is a significant and growing contingent that are IOS primary users that don’t want IOS to become more Mac like and instead want Apple to double down on all things that make it IOS like.

And what the hardcore users do want is a some of the power apps on MacOS to come over such as Logic or Final Cut Pro, but as fully realized IOS apps.

I also have a strong suspicion that Apple looks at Windows and their tablet efforts and sees the epitome of the “jack of all trades, master of none” syndrome. In other words, MS has created something that is not totally optimum for either, though I will concede they are pretty close on the desktop side of things.

What I do wonder about is MS had been brave enough to push forward with the concepts introduced with Windows 8 and more importantly, the original surface.

In other words, it likely would have looked like the Apple of today, with two distinct and overlapping product lines. But that we would also have much better Windows tablets as a result.

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I’m going to disagree with both of you this morning (how’s that for enhancing my “brand” as being generally disagreeable?):

As a former user of both platforms, technically MS HAS beaten them at their own game in the ultraportable space - the Surface Pro 8 is far superior as a laptop/desktop class replacement as anything in the Apple arsenal (save for tablet only apps, where even Android is a poor second) but it has NOT put a dent in Apple sales. No one could argue that the Surface kickstand is superior; I feel the Typecover with pen slot (and the Slim Pen) are superior to Apple’s solutions - even the vaunted Magic Keyboard. Hands down the windowing experience is far superior to even the best hopes at this point for Stage Manager, yet Apple shrugs off Tommy gun bullets like George Reeves.

As for the “MacPad” I think it IS here already, but it is a baby MacPad. I have been very impressed by the iPadOS 16.1 beta for the subtle but important improvements in Stage Manager. Grant us a little more freedom in external monitor window placement, and IF (the big if) we get meaningful upgrades to Office 365 and a true Adobe Acrobat Pro replacement, for 80% of all office drones like myself this would be the MacPad (well, maybe MacPad Lite - more taste and less filling).

Everyone here knows I incessantly hunt for the unicorn, but I am NOT a pollyanna. My thinking is that Apple is juggling THREE different user sets with the iPad Pro, and one design mis-perception, that will just take some time to work through.

The competing user groups:

iPad Purists (KEEP IT iPADDY AT ALL COST) - they don’t NEED a Pro, they just want the name brand and Starbucks cache of carrying the premium device.

Creatives - they live and breath art, graphics, photography, video - and need the raw power but not necessarily all the bells and whistles of a full windowing environment - just give me real external screen support for crying out loud.

MacPad Addicts (yours truly) - who want a Mac in an 11-13” ultralight form factor, with all our favorite tablet apps and streaming services in tow.

Design Mis-perception:

Apple’s engineers start from the assumption that this is a touch first device and ALL interactions have to be touch optimized. Things like window movement, placement, sizing, even cursor control, at all times MUST be touch first, which fails MISERABLY once you get to the larger canvas of the external monitor. Add another option to Stage Manager to give users precise MOUSE CONTROL on the bigger screen that they can choose to use or not use, along with a real mouse cursor and user decided window placement/sizing, and you will have all three user groups in hand.

Will this cannibalize some MacBook Air sales - definitely - but it will also bring in a whole legion of users who “settle” for a Surface Pro 8 or other light weight Windows device PLUS iPad (mini or otherwise) because the tablet interface in the Windows realm interminably sucks.

Whoa - WAY TO MUCH spilt ink for a Friday morning…

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So, I’m going to counter that you instead represent a niche that might not be large enough for either Apple or MS for that matter to really invest in. Not to say you are wrong in any aspect, but more that you are burdened by the “tyranny of the majority”

In other words, you continue to want what so far anyway, can’t truly be delivered by anyone which is an ultraportable option that also makes no compromises as fully capable desktop.

So perhaps, a ~ 1.5-pound core device, that can be “docked” to support two large displays, an ergonomic mechanical keyboard etc. that can run any app at full speed and power, while having all day battery life and a superb display to boot.

And you know what? So do I.

But the engineer in me long ago learned the truism that when presented with 5 competing design goals, you can have as many as three of them optimized, if you can then concede on the other two.

And here is perhaps the bitterest pill to swallow which is that we all keep moving the goal posts as to both what our systems can do, but more importantly what it can do well.

In other words. I’m pretty sure someone could build the device you want today, but at best it would be running Windows 7 with a core M chip, with a HD display with basic touch/pen support, and thus you are right back to the jack of all trades , master of none scenario.

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I NEVER said I was reasonable in my expectations…hahaha

Nevertheless, we are getting close (or is that “closer”) on the iPad Pro side than I thought we’d get from either camp. Granted, MS has made good strides with the Surface Pro 8, particularly now trying to integrate Android - BUT - the Android tablet experience is only a few notches above the windows tablet experience at best (you can get a real Kindle reader on Android, but in MS’ world you get no Google support - a real losing proposition). With Apple we get the far superior iPad tablet experience, and now a half-way decent laptop experience.

This last week has been a VERY trying time. I finally put the SP8 on FleaBay, but kept tossing and turning over whether I should give Fold 4 plus SP8 a try. Perhaps if they had put an S-Pen silo in the Fold 4 I would have been tempted, but it all came down to the improvements in the 16.1 beta and the overall ecosystem of Apple vs MS+Samsung.

So here I am for the long haul…

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Exactly. Windows 8’s desktop interface was total trashville but they at least were onto something with the touch interface that could have been good had they not done what they always do and act squirrelly and get cold feet and throw the baby out with the bath water and reinvent the wheel with every OS release. Had they kept with it and not relegated Windows 8’s tablet sensibilities into the proverbial red-headed stepchild in Windows 10 which has been now brushed under the rug for their vanilla clone of Chromebook’s Chrome OS: Windows 11 Edition, the Surface line might have a UI today that may have very well stood up against iPadOS.

I still think that Apple will eventually have to succumb and put on the full desktop dress and take on a more macOS-like mode to reduce the ridicule they are getting for their half-baked take of Stage Manager right now. You can tell they are purposely holding back and in areas where it makes it noticeably bad, and many people will see it in action too and say the very same thing. I would as much say they come up with some crazy excuse to remove Stage Manager like apologizing for not being true to Job’s grudge against touch on desktop UI’s rather than them purposely nerfing it into its current hideous form.

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