Very good point. OneNote has RIGIDLY stuck to the tabbed notebook paradigm (which I thought was a bit odd for infinite pages) except for the ability to TURN pages.
1 Like
I think this is it - you’ve nabbed what I find strange / unhelpful in OneNote. It could be that it’s easy to drag / drop and rearrange content from one tabbed OneNote page to another but conceptually, it doesn’t “feel” like it’s something I can do.
When I’ve tried OneNote, it always felt like I had to be absolutely certain of what was going to go on each page before I started adding content. Notion however just lets me feel like I can’t make a mistake - if I put some content or a page in the wrong place - I can simply drag and place where it should be that day - and maybe this is what the creatives you mention like about it - it’s structured enough to feel like you can plan in detail but flexible enough that those plans or ideas can change as circumstances change.
Which is what tends to happen when you let a creative loose with any tool or material - a lot of visual arts / design teaching is based on “play” - encouraging a “try and see, you won’t break it” kind of approach to everything.
2 Likes
I think you hit the nail on the head with that. Notion is really flexible just for playing. Yes, the need for internet is a bit restrictive, but much less so than even just 5 years ago. Drag and drop and page linking is so smooth for playing with structure and being artistic with an outline.
1 Like
For me this is a showstopper. And while OneNote is rigid in one way, on an actual page you can do whatever. Notion is very rigid in how a page is laid out. I also didn’t like the severe lack of text style options.
Different strokes for different folks and all that, but Notion feels like a much more specific and restricted tool.
2 Likes
My Verdict On Notion to replace Evernote: Not yet for me
It is free, and does a lot, but…
- “Quick Find” is NOT a global search function (it finds text in plain pages, but not in databases/tables)
[EDIT: A database/table row is a record that includes a Page space. Any text you enter in the Page space is searchable in Quick Find. The contents of the defined fields in that database/table are not in scope for Quick Find.] - Tags are not global to a workspace (there is a semi workaround for databases, but moving an item can break the link)
- Not reliably available offline
- Inking workarounds are too kludgy
- It doesn’t scan for text in images (that I’ve been able to replicate)
- Importing from Evernote into Notion doesn’t handle attachments, links or complex tables well (sometimes at all)
I still LIKE Notion
Use cases I could see …
- If I didn’t have several thousand notes in Evernote, I could happily start with Notion
- If I were building a complex workflow from scratch
- If I were building my own digital planner/bullet journal/tracking system
- A wiki-like personal knowledge management system (PKMS)
I just don’t have the time right now to migrate everything out of Evernote, and I refuse to add yet ANOTHER repository to my workflow.
YMMV.
1 Like
100% understand that. If it weren’t for the cost of Evernote, I would still be using it today. It worked for me for quite awhile, but when I started a new project that I needed to use more devices than the free version of Evernote supported, I decided to try Notion. I agree with you. It works for a complex workflow from scratch. If it’s not from scratch, it’s probably not worth the change.
1 Like
This thing still has me fascinated. What I’ve realized is the key to Notion is planning the architecture of the data.
An Evernote note is the equivalent of a Page structure in Notion; Evernotes notes just have a limited number of predefined properties/data fields. Notebooks, stacks and tags are the only structure decisions to be made. Notion offers so many more ways to structure, relate and classify data.
A vision of a Digital Commonplace Book is coalescing in my brain…
One thing I’m still scratching my head about is why do people attempt to manage calendars and to do’s in this app vs. the existing more mature calendar/to do solutions.
It’s that itch you just have to scratch.
One of my students following the Games Design pathway last year used a program called Trello to organise herself - it’s based on the Japanese Kanban process. As her assessor, I could follow and see her organisational process really clearly. I think you’re right regarding Notion - it does a range off things including having a timeline functionand the create task list function has the look of a Kanban process so I suppose Notion tries to cover all bases? It comes down to the question of whether you want one App that tries to do everything or pick different Apps that do one thing really well.
I think if my games art student had used Notion as the organiser - knowing her, I don’t think she’d have finished the task or organised herself anywhere near as well as she did using Trello. Notion invites extended exploration and play whereas Trello and similar just do what they are meant to do and you can focus on that alone.
1 Like
You are correct. I tried Trello a couple of years ago. It’s “cards”/kanban structure were also predefined data sets like Evernote. Trello was designed to track multiple inputs from various contributors, which cluttered the UI too much for my preferences.
Glad your student did well.
1 Like
My Evernote structure is largely a customized implementation of the POIC (“Pile Of Index Cards”) system. See The Pile of Index Cards (PoIC) system | LaptrinhX . [FN1] I set up Notion pages to mimic this system and am now debating whether to make the time to migrate it all. At a minimum, I can now see a path to letting Evernote drop down to a free subscription and go forward with Notion.
Late last year, I spent time with Joplin on the same mission - searching for an Evernote replacement. Joplin is free like Notion but can save all the files locally (or in your iCloud/OneDrive, etc. with a bit of tinkering). It relies on Markdown language, so it is easy to move your files to other Markdown compatible programs. (Caveat: Joplin’s linking system for images and cross linking between notes doesn’t export well). I used Joplin to try a digital version of the Zettelkasten method. [FN2] The linking of the cards is intended to create connections between threads of thought. I succeeded in migrating a small set (+/- 50) to Notion. Notion seems very well suited to this.
All this to say, there are enough structural options to give me a workable global search and tagging function, making Notion a viable long-term solution.
[FOOTNOTE 1: The original post I read apparently no longer exists. The link I gave you above seems to be the same article sans the images. This is the original LifeHacker article pointing me to it: The Pile Of Index Cards System Efficiently Organises Tasks And Notes (lifehacker.com.au) ]
[FOOTNOTE 2: Zettelkasten is based on a physical index card/file box system attributed originally to Prof. Niklas Luhmann. Each card is a granular idea, thought or source. Linking cards together by sequence and/or subject creates interesting connectivity. Luhmann was a prolific author, and his ZK contained tens of thousands of cards he used to drive his writing. It has a large and passionate following (think David Allen’s GTD, Ryder Carroll’s Bullet Journal) debating the merits of physical cards vs. digital systems, and various other implementation minutiae. You can get lots of this on Reddit. Be warned it is a rabbit hole; and BTW Zettelkasten is just a German phrase for “slip box”, where “slips” are index cards.]
1 Like
That’s never stopped me in the past and thanks for all the extra information. I will do some reading and research.
1 Like
Trello is very popular in the homeschool community for organizing work across multiple kids and subjects. I look at it and get overwhelmed. I use homeschool planet because many of the curriculums I use are available as premade plans. I just drop them on my calendar however I want and it takes care of rescheduling if plans change.
I also got notion, but i have no idea what to do with it for now. I havent had sufficient time to play with it or think about what it might offer. But it would be nice to integrated the work I keep in onenote with the plan I keep in homeschool planet. I know people do that with trello.
2 Likes
FWIW - M$ is about to cannonball into this space as well:
The video is beautiful.
Introducing Microsoft Loop - YouTube
1 Like
Also, in the FWIW category, this is a link to a very well developed (from a design perspective) public Notion page based on Pokemon.
“My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.” - Hedley Lamar
1 Like
Loop looks a lot like Notion in the video. I wonder what the differentiators will be.
The Pokedex is really interesting! I’m already kicking myself for not implementing simple things like a toggle list for table of contents when I have a very large page.
1 Like
Microsoft Office/software ads have been so satisfying these last few years.
I wish they’d make their actual UI look paper-like like that, at least as an option. Subtle skeuomorphism is lovely.
1 Like
Yes, I’ve looked at Loop in my last job. (We had a preview of it from the MS representative)
Don’t read any further if you don’t want a rant.
[RANT]I have to confess that I really resented having to swap from perfectly adequate software over to the MS versions simply because my ex IT guys just couldn’t say no whenever MS said its new software could replace the proprietary software we had been using reliably.
I think if you’re ingrained in the 365 world then it makes sense. I have a strong sense that I’ll be using it in my new job however for personal work and projects I’m staying with Notion.[/RANT]
2 Likes
Yeah, I really can’t see breaking away from Notion anytime soon. My current project is already so big and integrated into Notion that it would just be a complete pain to migrate it anywhere else. Loop would have to have very major indexing improvements for it to make sense to move. As is, Notion’s database does plenty for what I need.
2 Likes
Basically and cynically, Microsoft looked at the huge growth of Notion and made a version for TEAMS / 365 users.
When we had the LOOP presentation 8 months ago, I didn’t like it and didn’t see much use as the TEAMS App already did a lot of the organisational things LOOP promised.
Eventually I began to realise there were so many different 365 Apps which had so much cross-over that any new ones didn’t make the effort of learning them worth it. Some of my old team were IT resistant and doing anything beyond TEAMS and Word / Powerpoint with them was pointless.
As the video @Bishop posted earlier shows - Notion works better for an individual’s needs. It’s maybe because I can see the use of Notion on an individual basis and had an introduction to LOOP last year that I’ve really liked Notion and seen its potential.
Anyhow, I seriously doubt (answering your question on Indexing) that LOOP does much better beyond Notion. Its biggest selling point is integration into the 365 hemisphere.
1 Like
Sounds like a bit of a blessing a curse for Notion.
Microsoft are coming for their 365 users. But on the other hand, not their other platform users. You can also tell that Notion is very much in the Apple-influenced sphere of design.