EV, PHEV, and Hybrid Vehicles

Fair enough. In the meantime you can add another downside to EVs. “Makes people drive like gosh darned BMW drivers”. The acceleration on these things makes it VERY tempting to step on it. I do still use turn signals though.

Side note, Tesla has this cool auto-off feature for the turn signals, where they actually safely use their FSD smarts. With that feature on you can signal a lane change and it’ll turn off the turn signal when the lane change is complete. Similarly, when you do a lane change into a turning lane, it’s smart enough to keep the turn signal going until you’re around the bend. Pretty cool, and for once works very reliably. Haven’t seen this in other cars, but maybe others here have.

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My wife says they are the worst drivers.

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It’s a competition between them, Mercedes, and Audi drivers to be the biggest bankers.

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That’s just the Full-Self-Driving system, the drivers are excellent.

I do (most of my clients are in the O&G business), OWN a plug-in hybrid, and @Bishop is absolutely right. In fact, I’ll go a step further - in my feeble mind the BEST solution for immediate impact on the environment are ENHANCED PHEV’s - 100 mile battery range with gasoline beyond that. Other than delivery vehicles and Uber/Lyft (etc.) I’d venture that 90% of America could make a day from that length of battery life. Infrastructure would be nominal - Level 2 would be best, but 110v will top you off overnight. No range anxiety and VAST majority of driving on precious electrons. Now, let’s talk again about HOW those electrons are produced.

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WRONG - pick up truck drivers ARE THE WORST, and Texas has a BILLION of them! They recognize no speed limits, stop signs, red lights, lane dividers - to them there is no other vehicle on the road (says the guy who was going 39 in a 35 zone this morning in my semi-EV and a pickup truck blew between me and another vehicle to make a three lane change from outside to inside lane, at least 60 mph, only to do the same thing two blocks down to go back from that inside lane to the outside lane).
:angry: :extremeanger: :angry:

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Absolutely. I probably would have bought that if readily available and eligible for the tax credit. I looked at the Prius Prime, but there was just no inventory.

That reminds me of another thing I liked when I bought my car. While I don’t love how Tesla pricing changes by thousands of dollars on a seemingly weekly basis, it’s really nice to select a car from the inventory, click buy, and know exactly what you’re going to pay, with zero in-person upsell attempts. A breath of fresh air!

(*) Disclosure: I own zero Tesla stock :slight_smile:

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We had to wait six months to get my wife’s Rav4 Hybrid last year - inventory sucks for any car we wanted…

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I don’t know anything about the solar part, but it cost me a grand total of $1k to get a charger installed. $500 for the Tesla wall connector and $500 for the install including the addition of some half-width breakers to fit the new 60A breaker.

The wall connector adds “up to 44 miles of range per hour”. That slows down quite a bit as you get closer to 100% charge, and it looks like it’s “up to 35mph” for the Model X. Still, it’s enough to charge a Model X from 10% to 100% overnight (under 10h), good enough!

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Our situation is more complicated since we live in a 200 year old farm house with a barn, no garage. We did have an electrician out to consult and the line currently running to the barn is not installed in a way to accommodate vehicle charging. We’d have to trench a new line and redo the panel in the barn to install a tesla level charger.

Everything becomes such a big project and we’re not sure how long we’ll even stay here, so we’re not up for big project level investments.

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Just doing the math.

Based on current EPA estimates, current tax credits and give or take driving patterns and gas prices, the estimate is 4-5 year to break even on EVs. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/how-long-to-break-even-on-an-electric-car/

That number doesn’t seem to include insurance differentials. Add in the $2K you describe, and break even goes out to 6-7 yrs. Without the tax credit, it’s over 10 yrs. Average longest hold time for a vehicle in the US is about 8 yrs. https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-length-of-car-ownership/#:~:text=The%20average%20time%20that%20Americans%20have%20owned%20a,have%20their%20longest-owned%20cars%20for%20about%208%20years.

Unfortunately , the government estimates on EVs seem to be off (maybe as much as VWs emissions estimates?).
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43657072/evs-fall-short-epa-estimates-sae-article/

Just doing the math.

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Yup. With the added insurance cost and current low cost of gas where I live, financial benefits are minimal/absent. Never mind the huge purchase price. Still love the drive though, and as electricity gets cleaner, so does my car. I think it’s a good thing. I hope all people for who(m?) these cars work will eventually get one. If a hybrid or PHEV works, do it. If full EV works, do it.

A lot of the other concerns brought up in this thread are overblown imo, and the major fair point is that the usefulness subsidies is debatable. Possibly unfair, possibly ineffective (since vendors just raise the car prices to absorb some of that sweet government cash). That’s no reason to lobby against EVs. You can be against subsidies without trying to talk people out of buying EVs.

Do you think EV makers fudge too? Ha ha ha - I’ve found that EPA estimates, even with my partial battery car, are WAY OFF at highway speed, but not too bad around town (which is normal for any hybrid). If I run over to Odessa at 75mph I can visibly see the battery stack depleting (maybe a total of 25 miles range even when the initial estimate leaving the house is 50 - NOT GOOD for a 20 mile one way drive - but the hybrid gasoline kicks in and saves my electrons). Same for when it is sub 20 or post 100 around here - mileage takes a 25-30% haircut.

The Internet and owner forums are rife with examples of poor Tesla mileage relative to the “advertised range.” Still, I’d love a 100 mile PHEV - would solve everything but the road trios.

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@dstrauss The EPA “estimates” are mostly a tool to compare between different vehicles. They are pretty bad estimates of range. Biggest problem is that speed has a huge impact on range. Here’s an old Tesla blog post about it. Going 10mph faster at highway speeds drops the range by 15% or so.

The same is actually true for gas powered cars, but it’s less talked about because their range is typically larger, and filling up is way faster.

A lot of the variability in range is down to things that are completely obvious (speed, wind, cold, driving up a hill, AC), so naturally results are all over the map.

One cool thing in Teslas is that you can get an energy-use graph, including an itemized list of why energy use was better or worse than expected on a given trip. I don’t have it handy but I’ll post one later on. Gotta keep some positivity/cool tech in my back pocket to keep this thread from getting too depressing. :sweat_smile:

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Here’s an example (not mine). Mine usually states “Aggressive acceleration consumes more energy”. Bunch of buzzkills.

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image

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